Leonard Maltin interviews Stanley Rubin at the screening of River of No Return (1954)

Press Photo

On Friday April 26th, 2013, Carlos and I attended a special screening of River of No Return (1954) at the Chinese Multiplex in Hollywood. You can see both of us in the photograph above (note TCM marked this photo as being a shot of the audience of Voyage to Italy but it was indeed River of No Return. Neither of us went to the Voyage to Italy screening and I even remember those 3 young adults in the row in front of us recording something for a video podcast at the River of No Return screening).

This experience was probably the most emotional one for me during my time at the TCM Classic Film Festival. Every time I revisit this I get really emotional. Here is what I wrote in my Recap post for that day:

River of No Return (1954) is the second Robert Mitchum film I ever saw with Out of the Past (1947) being the first. And as most of you know, Robert Mitchum is my favorite actor. I have always been a fan of Marilyn Monroe too and have seen almost all of her films. Also, I've been to the river in the film. The movie was shot on the Athabasca River in Alberta, Canada and I have very happy memories visiting the river and the Rocky Mountain town Jasper which is situated alongside the river. River of No Return isn't a perfect film but it's one I have loved for as long as I have been a classic film fan. It has a special place in my heart and to see the producer of the film up on stage talking about the movie, sharing his stories and talking about Mitchum and Monroe was truly an honor.  Not only that, Rubin stayed to watch the film with us. 

Then it hit me. This is truly amazing. Truly fucking amazing. And then the tears just flowed. Wow.

We had to leave this screening early to attend another event which was some distance aways. This bothered me immensely. I feel like I didn't get closure with this experience because I didn't see it all the way through. While the following event was great, I don't think it was worth leaving this one early to go to that one. Carlos had never seen the film before and even though I had, I think it would have been best for both of us to had stayed through the whole thing. I felt so bad, that when I got home from the festival I immediately purchased the Blu-Ray of the film so we can watch it at home together (I had a bad DVD copy of it so I felt upgrading was worth it). If I go to the festival again, I want to make sure never to leave anything before it ends. It's just not worth it.

Before the screening, Leonard Maltin interviewed River of No Return's producer Stanley Rubin and Rubin's wife, actress Kathleen Hughes.

Press Photo

I will do my best to transcribe the interview. It's not word-for-word and I use a lot of paraphrasing.

Leonard Maltin asked the audience how many of them had seen River of No Return (1954) on the big screen. Very few hands went up. I had never seen it before on the big screen, just the little one.

Maltin: Stanley Rubin started as a screenwriter in the 1940s and worked his way up the ladder. He was promoted from screenwriter to producer in the early 1950s. River of No Return was his biggest assignment to date. Rubin was accompanied by his wife Kathleen Hughes. Folks might recognize Hughes from It Came From Outer Space (1953). You can date the marriage of Rubin and Hughes from this film (they've been married since 1954).

While Rubin and Hughes are making their way to the stage, he notes that Hughes' image is very iconic and linked to 1950s Sci-Fi genre.

Press Photo

Rubin notes that he's incapable of remembering to speak into the microphone. His wife and Maltin help him several times during the interview.

Maltin: Maltin hadn't seen Rubin in a while and noted that it was nice to meet up with a fellow college graduate and let's Rubin explain.

Rubin: Rubin entered UCLA in 1933 and got his degree in 2005. He had other business to accomplish in between but he was very happy to go back. Rubin had very dear memories of UCLA where he was the editor of the Daily Bruin.

Maltin: Maltin asks Hughes about her first date with Rubin.

Hughes: They were both under contract for Fox. Rubin kept asking her out and she kept turning him down for months and months. Then one day he invited her to have dinner with him and see a print of The River of No Return. She thought that sounded like a picture that she would enjoy. So they went to dinner and to the screening, Hughes enjoyed the movie very much. Then two months later they were married. (awww)

Rubin: He's glad that relationship still exists.

Maltin: At this point he notes they can date their relationship to River of No Return and that's very special. (I agree!)

Maltin: Maltin notes that Rubin had already produced a couple of pictures before River of No Return, including The Narrow Margin (1952) which was also being screened at the festival. River of No Return was a much bigger picture though than Rubin had tackled before. There were challenges. Rubin was off on location in Canada, with a large crew, a rather imperious director Otto Preminger, a strong-willed leading man Robert Mitchum and a sometimes difficult leading lady Marilyn Monroe. He asks Rub, what were your biggest challenges?

Rubin: Preminger and Monroe didn't hit it off very well. Monroe took that as an open door to establish a relationship with Rubin. That helped Rubin a great deal because they became really good friends. Rubin clarifies that Monroe and he were good friends not Preminger and him.

Maltin: Did you lock horns with Otto Preminger?

Rubin: Not really. They got along. Preminger was a diplomat from the word "go".

Maltin: What was the toughest sequence to get on film?

Rubin: The toughest sequence was getting Monroe onto the raft. Because the first day she tried she slipped on a rock and fell into the river. Despite all the help that they had there, they had safety boats, safety swimmers, but Monroe still slipped right off the rock into the fast-flowing river. (Interjection: The Athabasca River is no measly little stream. It is one strong river and you don't want to mess with it!). That accident taught them a big lesson instantly.

Maltin: Did you manage to proceed on time and on schedule? Did things get held up at all?

Rubin: Rubin jokes - Because Marilyn fell into the river? (Audiences laughs at this point.) Rubin doesn't want to dissemble or make things seem rosier than it was. They worked very hard and sometimes they would slip off of schedule. But in the end they made it up and they were on schedule.

Maltin: Maltin notes that they were far away from the studio 20th Century Fox and the boss Darryl F. Zanuck when filming. Did the studio keep a close eye on what was going on?

Rubin: No, there was a grace period and they took advantage of it. Zanuck was a surprisingly friendly and good-natured and accommodating boss.

Maltin: Zanuck definitely understood story-telling.

Rubin: Yes he did and had a long background in it. Even before he became the head of the studio. And that background was at Warner Bros.

Maltin: People are fascinated all these years laters with Marilyn Monroe. How would you describe her?

Rubin: They became good friends because of Monroe's issues with Preminger. Rubin and Monroe became very warm and very friendly. Rubin had turned down Monroe before. She had come in on an audition, a year or two before River of No Return. Rubin was nervous on meeting her for this movie because he turned her down the first time they met. He remembers wondering how friendly she would be after being rejected by him or whether she would bring up what happened before. But she never did. She was a perfect lady.

Hughes: Hughes reminds Rubin that he turned Monroe down because he didn't think she had enough experience. But it was just a couple of years later, that Rubin was begging Zanuck for Monroe to be in one of their films.

Rubin: Rubin says, what a difference a couple of years make!

Maltin: Robert Mitchum liked to give the impression that he didn't really care that much about acting and that it was just a job. That seems to have not been the case because he was a very dedicated professional. How would Rubin assess that?

Rubin: Rubin agrees with Maltin. Mitchum cared a great deal but hid that because that wouldn't keep him cool. Rubin found out later that Mitchum had done a lot of questioning and probing about what was going on behind the scenes of the film to see how good the preparation was. Mitchum was totally dedicated on everything he did to conceal the fact that he wanted it to go well.

Maltin: Did Mitchum and Monroe hit it off okay?

Rubin: They became very good friends. But that was it. A very pleasant, good, cool relationship.

Maltin: That makes for a great team to make a great movie. And now we get to see the results.

Rubin: Rubin said he hopes everyone likes it.

Maltin: Maltin asked Rubin if he'll stay to watch it again.

Rubin: Rubin said yes and remarked that he hadn't seen it in years and was very interested in seeing it again.

Press Photo

Out of all the interviewers at the festival, I have to say I think Leonard Maltin was my favorite. Osborne  and Mankiewicz were great too but I think Maltin asked the best questions that solicited really great responses. Stanley Rubin was struggling to remember things and Maltin was very patient and asked a lot of good questions which helped move along the interview. Maltin was very gentle with Rubin and I think that helped quite a bit.

This is by far my favorite out of all the screenings at the festival just because of the emotional connection I have with the movie and how grateful I was to have the chance to hear Stanley Rubin talk about it. It was a great experience and River of No Return (1954) will now forever hold a special place in my heart.

TCM Classic Film Festival - Press Conference with Charles Tabesh and Genevieve McGillicuddy

This is the third of my transcripts for the Press Conference that happened on Wednesday April 24th, 2013 at the TCM Classic Film Festival. This was a Q&A with Charles Tabesh, Senior VP of Programming, and Genevieve McGillicuddy, Managing Director of the festival. I tried to be as thorough as possible but there is some paraphrasing along with some quoting. It's not word-for-word but as close as I can get to it. Note that various people asked questions at the press conference. Enjoy!

Question: How does TCM come up with programming ideas?

Charles Tabesh: Tabesh says they get lots of ideas from fans of TCM who write in with suggestions. If it's something they did somewhat recently but there is still demand for it, they might keep it mind for the future but they don't want to be too repetitive. They go through message boards for ideas too. TCM tries to be open to ideas and they evaluate to see what would work and what would not.

Question: What do you think is the appeal of Film Noir? It was mentioned that several noirs are being shown at the festival.

Charles Tabesh: Last year's festival theme was style and noir fit in perfectly with that. They got a lot of great feedback and wanted to make sure that noirs were featured in this year's festival too. People love seeing film noir on the big screen, the mood is so rich in those films and resonates well with audiences.

Question: How did TCM react to Jonathan Winters, from It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World (1963) passing away before the festival started? (He was scheduled to appear at the screening) What is the cutoff date for a film to be considered classic?

Genevieve McGillicuddy: TCM was very sad to hear about the passing of Jonathan Winters and planned to do a tribute to him at the It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World screening.

Charles Tabesh: TCM had to do a last minute adjustment and it was emotional for them. In reference to the second question, the way that TCM defines what is a classic is all about the context. An example of something that was done recently was Katherine Hepburn as Star of the Month on TCM. They wanted to play every film from her career that they could, from the films she did in the early 1930s all the way until her last film Love Affair (1994). Love Affair was not a very good movie, not considered a classic, but in context with Katherine Hepburn's career they thought it was important to show her last performance. Tabesh makes it clear that there is no time cutoff date for TCM. He says that they are all about the history of movies and part of that history is newer films too. Part of TCM's mission is to branch out and be a little more adventurous from time to time.

Question: How did you come up with the sub-themes in Cinematic Journeys like River as a Road? Would you consider doing an LGBT special on TCM?

Charles Tabesh: TCM brainstorms on the sub-themes. Sometimes they worked around a title in particular. For example, this year they premiered a restoration of The General (1926) and because a train is prominent in that film they decided it was logical to include other films featuring trains as a form of travel. Also, the sub-themes help to put together newer and older films, the more well-known and the more obscure. There is no hard rule, they just do what feels right. As for the second question, they did do a series a few years ago called Screened Out: Gay Images in Film and they'd love to explore that again. In terms of the festival, they would love include it depending on what their broader theme is. They don't know what their theme is for next year's festival.

Question: The diversity of programming on the different TCMs around the world are very different. The other international TCMs don't have as much variety. Is there any way that TCM could help out those other ones to diversify their programming?

Genevieve McGillicuddy: They are in communication with the TCMs around the world and try to collaborate with them when they can. There are TCMs in Europe, Asia, Latin America, etc. The different TCMs have different goals and different branding. There are certain things TCM shares with the others. Programming varies from region to region.

Charles Tabesh: Each TCM programs differently and one of the reasons is rights. Some of the films in the library that TCM in the US has available to them may have been sold to other channels in other territories and the TCMs there might not have access to them. There is no way for them to have an exact match in programming with the other TCMs. Also, the business models are different. Some just have different sensibilities. TCM Spain likes more edgy and more contemporary classics. TCM is lucky that they've been able to give these other territories some broad access to their library. They have been able to negotiate deals when they've been able to go deep and get better access to films.

Question: How do you chose which films should be screened at certain times on the channel?

Charles Tabesh: TCM doesn't edit the films they show so they are careful when they place them on air. That's rare on basic cable because a lot of channels show edited versions of films but TCM won't do that. If there are a lot of bad words or nudity, they will play it later at night. They usually save those films for after 10 PM West Coast time. Thankfully DVRs are becoming more prevalent so it helps TCM with this issue of having to play these films at inaccessible hours.

If it's an older film without any content issues they try to play it once during prime time hours and might play it again much later in the evening so as to give both West and East coast better access to the film.

Question: Any chance of some more Fredric March in the future? [Bonus points if you guess the blogger who asked this question.]

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Turns out Genevieve is a fan!

Charles Tabesh: Yes, of course. March was Star of the Month a couple of years ago but they are open to playing more of his films in the future.

Question: There are more films this year presented digitally at the festival than there were at the first festival in 2010. Are you particular or not particular about format?

Genevieve McGillicuddy: When TCM started this festival, it was important to them to screen the films the way they were mean to be seen. They try to stay true to original aspect ratio, no editing, no censoring, etc. And they want to show the films in the best possible format they could. Sometimes that's 35mm which is great because that's the way those films were originally shown. However, there have been some challenges that have come up. Internally, the team has paid close attention to that world premiere restorations such as the ones they are having at the festival are being produced in a digital format. TCM thinks they look fantastic and are really happy to be able to present those films. For the time being, the festival will always be a combination of digital and film. They take this so seriously that 20% of the festival budget goes to projection and technical support. TCM works very closely with the venues screening the films to make sure they can do 35mm but sometimes they have to bring in all that equipment to make it happen (for the Chinese Multiplexes in particular). McGillicuddy points out how they were able to work the Cinerama Dome, El Capitan and the Egyptian who all screen at multiple formats. What's important to them is to show the best possible version of a film they can. For example, they had been working very hard to track down the best possible print of The Ladykillers (1955). In fact, they found one and it was delivered just in time for the festival. Ultimately, it's all about the best possible presentation of a film.

Charles Tabesh: Sometimes the decision comes down to choosing between a very poor film print and a good digital restoration. Industry restorations are more digital these days.

Question: Can you talk about the importance of the venues at the festival? How do you decide which films go to which venues and is this a decision based on theme? Also, where do the prints come from and how do you find them?

Charles Tabesh: As far as thematic programming at venues, there isn't much to tie in together. Cinerama Dome is one example though because of 70mm and It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World (1963) (I would later find out that the Cinerama Dome was built with that movie in mind). Other than that it's based on size of venue and how popular the film is going to be. How do they gauge that? It's a guess. Sometimes they'll get talent that's already scheduled for one of the smaller venues and they don't confirm until the last minute and that's just the way it goes. They just know that certain films like The Great Escape (1963) will draw a huge crowd. This is all combined with format and how the different venues are set up for different formats.

Question: How often do you rely on film archives for the festival and for the channel in general?

Genevieve McGillicuddy: It is crucial that they have ongoing relationships with the Library of Congress, Film Foundation, the Academy, UCLA, the list goes on, otherwise they would not be able to obtain some of the prints they have screened.

Charles Tabesh: And the studios as well. Some studios are much more willing to lend out whatever prints they have. If the studio doesn't have a good print of something, TCM will go around asking the archives to see if they have one. TCM has great relationships with a lot of studios and archives. Sometimes they are not able to find good prints and will have to work programming around that.

Question:  How many people are involved in the selection process of the festival and how ugly does it get?

Charles Tabesh: There is a core team of about three or four people that meets regularly really early on and they talk through ideas and plans. The same goes with the channel where there is a programming department. There is collaboration in terms of talking but certain individuals make decisions. Collaborating is important but personal vision is important too.

(Interjection: This was kind of difficult to understand but it seems like a few key people make decisions and they are given leeway to do so. I think Tabesh was trying to be careful answering this question.)

Question: About the channel, how concerned is TCM about ratings?

Charles Tabesh: Zero. TCM doesn't get any ratings. Tabesh doesn't even think they are allowed to get ratings. When AMC added commercials to their programming some years ago, cable service providers became concerned because they started getting a lot of complaints from subscribers. Those providers wanted to make sure that TCM never went that route. It's written into contracts they have with providers that they are not allowed to have ratings or commercials. They try to show what they think would be popular but they also try to show a good mix every month of the bigger better known films and everything else. TCM wants to have variety. They are not trying to maximize any certain demographic or target anything.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: It is crucial that they remain, from a business perspective, commercial-free. That's really the core of the TCM brand. Being commercial-free is important to the fans as well as to TCM and they are proud to have stuck to that vision of what they wanted their channel to be.

Question: What role does TCM play in major film restorations that were premiered at the festival? Was it at TCM's suggestion? Did TCM contribute financially?

Charles Tabesh: There is some back-and-forth with studios but for the most part they don't fund restorations. For example, TCM did not help fund the restoration for Funny Girl (1968) but they did do some funding for I am Suzanne! (1933). For the most part, the studios take care of those big restorations. About a year before the festival, Tabesh would solicit the studios for information about any restoration projects they had in the works to get a feel for what might work for programming. Tabesh and McGillicuddy discuss to see if that restoration has an important anniversary or would fit the programming for that particular festival. The restorations are mostly handled solely by the studios who do them in preparation for a Blu-Ray release.

Tabesh also notes that the restoration will also be shown on TCM around the time of the DVD or Blu-Ray release. This is almost like an ad for the studio because people watch it on TCM then want to buy it.

Leonard Maltin Interviews Norman Lloyd at The Lady Vanishes (1938) Screening

On Saturday April 27th, 2013 I attended a screening of the Alfred Hitchcock film The Lady Vanishes (1938). Leonard Maltin hosted and started off with asking the audience if any of us had never seen the film before. I was one of the people who raised their hands. This film has been on my to-be-seen list for as long as I can remember and I'm so glad that my first time watching it was at this screening.

Maltin noted that many Hitchcock fans tend to focus on his later American films but his sentimental favorites are Hitchcock's British films from the 1930s. Maltin introduced Norman Lloyd calling him a "rare individual", one of the few people who can speak about a long working relationship with notable figures including Charlie Chaplin, Jean Renoir, Martin Scorcese, cast and crew of St. Elsewhere and Alfred Hitchcock. Maltin said Lloyd was one of the producers of the long running Alfred Hitchcock TV series. He also noted that the only unfortunate thing about Norman Lloyd being there that day was that he was missing his daily tennis match. Maltin referred to him as the "ever eternally young, 98 year old Norman Lloyd".

As I had said before in a previous post, Norman Lloyd was one of the oldest guests at the TCM Classic Film Festival but he was in the best shape. Several stars required wheelchairs or assistance walking. Lloyd at 98 years old needed no help whatsoever and seemed the epitome of health. God bless that man!

Lloyd was greeted with a standing ovation. Maltin joked that he would have to work hard to bring Lloyd out of his shell because he is very shy. Lloyd was by the far the most entertaining guest I saw interviewed at the festival.

I will do my best to transcribe the interview. It's not word-for-word and I use a lot of paraphrasing.

Maltin kicked off the interview by asking Lloyd by noting Hitchcock was able to blend the thrilling and suspenseful elements of film with humor.

Maltin - Tell us about Hitchcock's sense of humor.

Lloyd - Hitchcock said about his humor that the moment he got a new script, he threw out all logic. Lloyd notes that Hitchcock was the one who made famous the term "MacGuffin". When asked for a definition of the MacGuffin, Hitchcock would say that it was a plot point that has nothing to do with the plot. The MacGuffin was used to hunt lions in the Scottish Highlands. So Lloyd replied, but there are no lions in the Scottish Highlands! And Hitchcock replied, there's no MacGuffin. When asked to define it, Hitchcock said it's what the actors talk about at great length and has nothing to do with the story. He notes that it propels the story but no one knows what it is. Maybe that's accounts for how movies achieve their fame.

Maltin - One of the examples of Hitchcock's sense of humor, something Lloyd had a lot to do with, were the introductions to the Alfred Hitchcock Presents TV show. Hitchcock became well-known to many generations visually and through his droll wit. Hitchcock always said something snide about the commercial sponsor. How did you, the producer and Hitchcock arrive at the idea and executing Hitchcock's intros and interruptions.

Lloyd - Lloyd notes that he wasn't there on the show when Lew Wasserman got the idea to have Hitchcock appear in that manner. Even having a television show with Hitchcock was an extraordinary coup for the agency MCA because Hitchcock was only connected with films. (Interjection: I read that Hitchcock was very reluctant to do the TV show at all because he wasn't sure it would work). Comedy writer James Allerdice found in Hitchcock a vessel for Allerdice to voice his views about the world and a ready collaborator. Joan Harrison was the producer of the show, was once Hitchcock's secretary and Lloyd remembers her fondly. James Allerdice's imagination ran wild so much so that he'd put Hitch in a bottle, in golf knickers (Lloyd notes "that's quite a sight!"), have him play his own brother with a mustache, etc. Allerdice would send in the intro ideas to Lloyd and the producer and Lloyd would think, Hitch would never do that! But Hitch always did. Lloyd shares an anecdote of how Allerdice once had a lion sent in for an intro and the lion had his head in Hitch's lap and Hitch kept talking the whole time. Hitchcock did every intro Allerdice wrote and Lloyd notes that it was an amazing collaboration that went on for 10 years. Hitchcock became a real star, a world-wide figure. Hitch particularly loved that they showed the program in Japan especially because the captions were perpendicular and that seemed to amuse Hitch. Hitchcock would come up to Lloyd in the morning and would say "You sent for me?". Lloyd would reply, no no! Hitch was the boss, you don't send for the boss. Hitch loved that surprise element that caught people off their guard.
Lloyd remembers cameraman Joe Valentine on the set of Saboteur (1942) laying out a whole shot and asking Hitch if he wanted to look at it. Hitch responded "oh no, I've looked through a camera before."

Maltin - At this point, Maltin informs the audience that Norman Lloyd was in Saboteur (1942) and he's the one hanging off of the Statue of Liberty in that famous scene. So if you weren't impressed before...

Maltin - He asks Lloyd whether he remembers Hitchcock talking about his British films.

Lloyd - Lloyd says that Hitchcock never talked about The Lady Vanishes and 39 Steps, which Lloyd refers to as "two perfect films" which helped Hitchcock become the most famous director in England. Lloyd goes on to say that Hitchcock never topped the perfection of these two films in his opinion. The Lady Vanishes was made under the most difficult conditions. The stage was only 90 feet long and everything was happening on that set. All the trains you see in the film were toy ones. Lloyd asked Hitchcock, didn't that worry him about the trains being fake. Hitchcock replied that it didn't matter. He knew in telling his story that he could convince the audience otherwise.

Maltin - Maltin notes that because the story is so good that audiences tend to forgive rear projection and miniatures. He then brings up the two amusing Greek chorus characters Caldecott (Naunton Wayne) and Charters (Basil Radford) which became so popular that they appeared in future films, even ones that Hitchcock wasn't involved with.

Lloyd - Lloyd says that this was an example of Hitchcock's humor. Wayne and Radford were straight actors and not comics. Hitchcock was the one that put them together and made a comedy team out of them.

Maltin - What do you think is the appeal of The Lady Vanishes and Hitchcock's other British films?

Lloyd - There was a technical mastery in these films. If you want to know how to shoot a film, Lloyd advises watching the 39 Steps. Every shot, every camera set, every movement is perfection. Hitch had a saying "camera logic", when asked about what that meant Hitch said the camera logic is when the camera is exactly where it should be to tell the story. Lloyd shared an anecdote of a particularly difficult shot that Hitchcock was filming in Saboteur. Hitchcock believed that the shot had to tell a story and every close-up should move the story along. Lloyd was on a balcony, standing on a railing and Hitchcock asked him if he would do a backflip over the railing (Lloyd notes he was much younger then and would do anything for art). Lloyd did the backflip in lieu of a stunt double because Hitchcock was shooting it as a close-up and didn't want to go right with Lloyd as he did the flip. With a stunt double the camera would have had to move away and back and away and back so as to hide the stuntman. But Hitchcock thought it crucial for storytelling and wanted to maintain the close-up. Hitchcock knew how to tell a story. Hitchcock once said, if you can tell a story you can shoot it, if you cannot tell it, you cannot shoot it.

This was such an amazing event. I'm very grateful to Norman Lloyd, Leonard Maltin and the folks at TCM for putting this together! And I enjoyed The Lady Vanishes (1938) very much and was glad to see it on the big screen alongside other grateful festival attendees and Norman Lloyd himself. Even Marvin Kaplan was there to watch the film!